my6thgen.org - Maxima Forum

my6thgen.org - Maxima Forum (http://my6thgen.org/index.php)
-   Audio, Video & Electronics (http://my6thgen.org/forumdisplay.php?f=270)
-   -   Advice Needed: Volt difference (http://my6thgen.org/showthread.php?t=28794)

Cammus 04-08-2016 05:29 PM

Volt difference
 
Long story short. Nissan Maxima 04
Optima Yellow Top battery
0 gauge wires
DB Drive Speed Series 900.1 w
2 Kicker CVR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mz6VWu4F3Y

I have 2 digital voltmeters, the one up goes directly to the battery, the one in the bottom comes from the amp.
As you can notice, the one from the amp goes crazy, even with low volume, when I bump the bass it can go as low as 10.8v

I dont think that this has something to do with the Big 3 (I dont have it), maybe Im wrong. My ground and power are good. So, any suggestions? :noidea:

Cammus 04-09-2016 10:20 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
bump

Avguytx 04-12-2016 11:04 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
It's Ohms law. If you are working with the stock alternator and a huge amp, you're going to get a voltage drop pulling a lot of current. You say you have 0 gauge power...same for ground? Are you grounded straight to the frame for the amplifier? Are you running two batteries or one? Did you upgrade the charging cable that goes from the alternator to the battery? Did you upgrade the ground wire from the battery to the frame or at least check connections? Just because you have a "Yellow Top Optima" doesn't mean it's going to sit at 13.2v at any given point. Voltage will drop and lights will dim when you add a large amp onto a stock alternator. There's about enough there to drive the accessories on the car and not much more.

But those are the things I would ask if I were still in Car Audio where I worked in retail at sales/installation/manager, then manufacturers rep and trainer for companies like Rockford, Lightning Audio, MB Quart, etc., from 1979 to 2009.

Avguytx 04-12-2016 11:07 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
Double post.

Avguytx 04-12-2016 04:46 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Ok, so I watched the video this time. That lower volt meter on the bottom is at the amplifier I take it? Is the volt meter powered and grounded at the same +/- wires the amp is? You're not grounded to a seat belt bolt or some existing "welded in" point are you? If so, that's the worst ground in the world and can cause all sorts of resistance problems. Frame is always best ground for an amplifier and you want it on the same side of the car that the battery is grounded on so it's on the same ground plane.

Cammus 04-13-2016 12:42 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avguytx (Post 409957)
It's Ohms law. If you are working with the stock alternator and a huge amp, you're going to get a voltage drop pulling a lot of current. You say you have 0 gauge power...same for ground? Are you grounded straight to the frame for the amplifier? Are you running two batteries or one? Did you upgrade the charging cable that goes from the alternator to the battery? Did you upgrade the ground wire from the battery to the frame or at least check connections? Just because you have a "Yellow Top Optima" doesn't mean it's going to sit at 13.2v at any given point. Voltage will drop and lights will dim when you add a large amp onto a stock alternator. There's about enough there to drive the accessories on the car and not much more.

0 gauge cable for ground and battery.
Yes, grounded to the frame in the trunk (under the carpet)
One battery
Nope, I haven't done the Big 3 upgrade yet (because I wanted to know if its real that the car could get into flames if something goes wrong?) I have the wires, just need the fuse.
The lights doesn't dim neither inside the cabin.

Question: did you saw my video? The battery voltmeter does not go as low as the one in the amp. It stays between 13.4-13.8
The one to the amp goes from 13.4 to 10.9 even at low volume. :noidea:

Cammus 04-13-2016 12:45 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avguytx (Post 409960)
Ok, so I watched the video this time. That lower volt meter on the bottom is at the amplifier I take it? Is the volt meter powered and grounded at the same +/- wires the amp is? You're not grounded to a seat belt bolt or some existing "welded in" point are you? If so, that's the worst ground in the world and can cause all sorts of resistance problems. Frame is always best ground for an amplifier and you want it on the same side of the car that the battery is grounded on so it's on the same ground plane.

Yes sir, the lower voltmeter comes directly from the amplifier.
Correct, both wires are connected to the positive and negative of the amp wires.
Nope, is grounded to the frame. Under the carpet I peel off the paint and drilled a hole.

Cammus 04-13-2016 04:22 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
I think I got it.

Cammus 04-13-2016 04:23 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Today I replaced the terminal from the amp gound.
It did improve a little but still when those subs hit the voltage goes down to 12.0 at the peaks.
Also noticed that if I put the volume to 38 the voltage stays between 13.6 - 12.8
if I turn the volume to 40 (max) that's when the voltage goes crazy.

So I guess the next step is to get Big 3

Any advice before I do this?
I dont want to get my car into flames.

Cammus 04-13-2016 06:04 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Or can somebody please tell me what do I need to add or do to my car?
I cant believe that I have this kind of voltage problems with just a 900 watts amplifier.

Avguytx 04-14-2016 01:01 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
What size fuses are on the amplifier? That will show you how much extra amperage is needed from the alternator to produce the wattage you need. It may be "just 900 watts" but it's current being drawn that wasn't originally intended to be drawn.

Ohms law... Total power / Supply voltage = Current (inefficiency of amp not taken into consideration)

900 watts / 13.4v = 67.4 amps of "extra current" being drawn from your cars charging system that wasn't originally factored in. You're going to have voltage drop, etc., without a beefier system. It's just part of it.

Is that 900 watts RMS or peak/max? Can't find any kind of manual on that series.

No clue what "Big 3" means. Alternator, battery, cap?

Avguytx 04-14-2016 01:03 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
This pretty much sums it up about amperage in a car.

http://dbdrive.net/amperage/

Cammus 04-14-2016 05:14 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avguytx (Post 409978)
What size fuses are on the amplifier? That will show you how much extra amperage is needed from the alternator to produce the wattage you need. It may be "just 900 watts" but it's current being drawn that wasn't originally intended to be drawn.

Ohms law... Total power / Supply voltage = Current (inefficiency of amp not taken into consideration)

900 watts / 13.4v = 67.4 amps of "extra current" being drawn from your cars charging system that wasn't originally factored in. You're going to have voltage drop, etc., without a beefier system. It's just part of it.

Is that 900 watts RMS or peak/max? Can't find any kind of manual on that series.

No clue what "Big 3" means. Alternator, battery, cap?

First of all, thanks for your response Avguytx.


Yes, 900 watts RMS
DB Drive Speed Series
SPA 900.1
Power Output RMS @4ohms 450x1
Power Output RMS @2ohms 900x1
Class D
Fuse 2x 30 amps

What Big 3 means is that you add/replace 3 cables on your electrical system.
1 from the alternator to the + of the battery
1 from the engine block to chassis
1 from - on the battery to chassis

And you use 4/0 gauge wire so the current flows with less restriction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnmXKjm3tZE

Cammus 04-14-2016 05:28 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avguytx (Post 409979)
This pretty much sums it up about amperage in a car.

http://dbdrive.net/amperage/

Ok so, my alternator is 110amp capable.

110 x .40 = 44 amp in reserve

900w / 13.6v = 66.17amp

So I need a 600w amp in order to be equal to the alternator reserve?

600w / 13.6v = 44.11 amp

Cammus 04-14-2016 08:45 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Seems like I did not explain myself clear.

I'll try it again.

I have 2 digital voltmeters.
One attached directly to the battery and one to the amp +and -
Only the one from the amp bounces from 13.6 to 11.8
The one from the battery stays 14.1 - 13.8 without fluctuations.
So, what I don't fully understand is why the current from my amp varies that
much? I mean, is there any way it can stays @ 14.1-13.8 range?
Maybe I connected something wrong? Or is just the way it has to be?

:(

Cammus 04-15-2016 11:43 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
bump :noidea:

Avguytx 04-18-2016 03:42 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
In 30 years of car audio, I never heard it called "the Big 3". But that was something we always did when there were larger systems installed. If they didn't want to spend the money on the cabling and labor, we didn't install the stuff.

Lownismo 04-18-2016 09:26 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
1 Attachment(s)
Something is wrong here. I have simple batteries+ bulbs battery, factory alternator. O gauge wire. Running 1000.1 jl mono block, pushing 2,12w6's. With a 3 Farrad prescion power capacitor. And a 360.4 jl amp . I stay at a constant 14.7 volts. No fluctuation what's so ever. It makes my roof wave. I've never had a problem after 3 years.

Cammus 04-24-2016 09:37 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Avguytx (Post 410006)
In 30 years of car audio, I never heard it called "the Big 3". But that was something we always did when there were larger systems installed. If they didn't want to spend the money on the cabling and labor, we didn't install the stuff.

Well I don't know where they get that name from haha

Cammus 04-24-2016 09:41 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lownismo (Post 410009)
Something is wrong here. I have simple batteries+ bulbs battery, factory alternator. O gauge wire. Running 1000.1 jl mono block, pushing 2,12w6's. With a 3 Farrad prescion power capacitor. And a 360.4 jl amp . I stay at a constant 14.7 volts. No fluctuation what's so ever. It makes my roof wave. I've never had a problem after 3 years.

So what do you think I have wrong? Any clues?
The only constant voltage I got is from battery 13.6
Where did you connect your wires to?
I guess that the best thing I can do is to someone take a look at the installation and go from there.

Lownismo 04-25-2016 11:59 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
1 Attachment(s)
My power wire is ran directly from the battery to to the capacitor about 14 feet and the the power wire is ran about 3 inches directly to the amp. The ground is ran about 3 foot from a fresh spot just behind the driver side rear back seat to a ground block. Which in turn runs to 2 jl w6s. The mid/vocal jl amp is ran using 4 guage wire directly from the battery to amp running 4 Memphis 6.5 components. That it. In the pic I was preloading the capacitor . It stay at 14. 7 volts now. And like I said, it hits so hard my roof waves, yet not even the slightest dimming of lights.

Cammus 05-07-2016 12:33 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lownismo (Post 410041)
My power wire is ran directly from the battery to to the capacitor about 14 feet and the the power wire is ran about 3 inches directly to the amp. The ground is ran about 3 foot from a fresh spot just behind the driver side rear back seat to a ground block. Which in turn runs to 2 jl w6s. The mid/vocal jl amp is ran using 4 guage wire directly from the battery to amp running 4 Memphis 6.5 components. That it. In the pic I was preloading the capacitor . It stay at 14. 7 volts now. And like I said, it hits so hard my roof waves, yet not even the slightest dimming of lights.

Should I get a capacitor then?

Lownismo 05-07-2016 12:58 AM

Re: Volt difference
 
Well I'll say this. I had tons of very expensive very loud and powerful stereos over
The past 20 years. That being said I've never used a capacitor till now. People say they
Are a scam or a gimmick. But I could honestly say that my car when cranked loud, does not
Have any dimming of lights or loss of power. When playing several songs in a row at a loud volume, I have no change in the amount power going to my amp. With out It, there is a noticeable loss of the power going to the amp after a few minutes. And the clean crisp bass slowly gets lower and less powerful. with the capacitor I get a continues power when needed. Not to mention back in the day PPI was a leader in amps and power. So I would buy it again, I feel it makes a difference to me. Basically all a capacitor is, is a small storage area of 12 volt power on demand. Which saves and eliminated stress on your battery and alternator.

Cammus 05-07-2016 11:38 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lownismo (Post 410092)
Well I'll say this. I had tons of very expensive very loud and powerful stereos over
The past 20 years. That being said I've never used a capacitor till now. People say they
Are a scam or a gimmick. But I could honestly say that my car when cranked loud, does not
Have any dimming of lights or loss of power. When playing several songs in a row at a loud volume, I have no change in the amount power going to my amp. With out It, there is a noticeable loss of the power going to the amp after a few minutes. And the clean crisp bass slowly gets lower and less powerful. with the capacitor I get a continues power when needed. Not to mention back in the day PPI was a leader in amps and power. So I would buy it again, I feel it makes a difference to me. Basically all a capacitor is, is a small storage area of 12 volt power on demand. Which saves and eliminated stress on your battery and alternator.

Yeah, I heard that too about the capacitors.
Well I guess I'll give it a try and see what happens.

Thanks for the info!

Cammus 05-10-2016 04:41 PM

Re: Volt difference
 
Update:

I redid my wires. B+ and Ground. The voltage is more stable now.
Battery reads 13.6 and amp 13.4
Now...another question. Is my alternator bad if while driving on a sunny day, the voltage goes from 14.4 in the morning then 13.6-13.8 driving temperature and drops to 12.5 while stuck on traffic? Of course it will go up to 13.6 again when I drive again but...is it normal to drop that low?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 AM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO