Register My Garage Arcade V.I.P Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Go Back   my6thgen.org - Maxima Forum > my6thgen.org - Very Useful Information > Ask Your Technical & General Questions

Ask Your Technical & General Questions Ask your general and/or technical questions relating to any problem you're experiencing or troubleshooting.

View All Technical & General Questions

Reply
ExclamationThis thread is more than 150+ days old. If you still feel it is necessary to bump this thread, you have the permission to do so. Please click the checkbox below and post your reply.
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-19-2012, 06:52 PM   Thread Starter #1
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Oilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Official Member #: 5663
Last Online: 05-07-2013 10:46 AM
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 8

Reputation Level: 0
Oilman is an unknown quantity at this point

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Ignition/Starting Issues

Background: So a little over a month ago I bought an '07 Max sight unseen and without keys. I made a post then about having the car towed to the dealership to have the intelligent key cut and programmed and the issues with the dealer then. I had the keys made and programmed, had a new lock cylinder installed, and had the fusible link, which the tech said had melted, replaced.

With all that finished the car wouldn't start. The service guy offered to have a diagnostic test done for free, but said when they did it nothing that came up made sense and they didn't know why it wouldnt start. After the headache of dealing with that service department for a few weeks I decided to have the car towed home so I could work on it myself

Fast forward to today: I started off scanning for codes but none came up. Then, since teh cars @ 145k anyway I went ahead and pulled all the sparkplugs and coils off. I replaced all the plugs and tested all the coils with a multimeter. 1, 2, & 4 tested bad so I replaced those and put everything back together. Still won't start I'm not getting any spark on 2 or 4 and haven't checked the back 3 again. I do know that all 6 are getting 12 volts and I moved the front 3 around and still only got spark from #6 so I don't think its the coils.

Sorry for the novel but I'm really lost as to what to try next. Why am I not getting spark on 2 cylinders no matter which coil is plugged in even though its getting 12v?
Oilman is offline   Send a private message to Oilman Find more posts by Oilman Add Oilman to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-19-2012, 08:47 PM   #2
Senior Moderator
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Chemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Official Member #: 140
Last Online: 10-04-2014 01:46 PM
Location: SATX
Posts: 11,313

Reputation Level: 51
Chemax has a spectacular aura aboutChemax has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%

My Awards:
Supporting Family Member  


/ Point Value: 10

Active Member  


/ Point Value: 5

Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

That's really strange. Wish I had a hunch but I got nothing.

Anyone?
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
We all have different ways of coping - I use sex and awesomeness.

mmm.... chorizo
-csiepka
Chemax is offline   Send a private message to Chemax Find more posts by Chemax Add Chemax to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-19-2012, 10:46 PM   #3
Moderator
Burnt Orange
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
BurntOrangeAppeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Official Member #: 2887
Last Online: 12-04-2014 04:56 PM
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 2,816

Reputation Level: 33
BurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

This is strange. You claimthat you have no spark and no codes? disconnect a single or multiple coil and see if you can trigger a code while cranking... When you say "No start" Does this mean not cranking or cranking and not firing?
1. Check all Fuses. since you had a fuse link melted then there was/is a short or open.
First of all, what fusible link did they replace? Secondly, you need to test resistance of all the coils.

Ignition Coil Terminal
1&2 Resistance should be Exept 0 or Infinite
1&3 Resistance Exept 0
2&3 Resistance Exept 0

In addition, you need to test ignition coil secondary circuits. Disconnect all coils. Pick a cylinder at a time and Remove each coil and spark plug from said cylinder, secure coil/plug 13-17 millimeters away from grounded surface (cylinder head, block etc.) Crank engine for 5seconds and observe for spark. (Dont touch the coil while cranking) Believe me its not a funny buzz. Do this to all the cylinders.

Once these procedures are completed, we can go further.
__________________
'04 SE 6MT, Elite.
'01 SE Anniversary.
'97 GXE.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
-=My Build Tread=-
BurntOrangeAppeal is offline   Send a private message to BurntOrangeAppeal Find more posts by BurntOrangeAppeal Add BurntOrangeAppeal to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-20-2012, 07:01 PM   Thread Starter #4
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Oilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Official Member #: 5663
Last Online: 05-07-2013 10:46 AM
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 8

Reputation Level: 0
Oilman is an unknown quantity at this point

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

Yep no spark on cyl 2 and 4 for sure. I'm out of town for work for the week so I'm gonna pull the manifold back off and check for spark on the back three Friday. I just knew it was gonna start with the new coils so I didn't even check before putting it back on yesterday. I did test all the coils with a multimeter and all came back @ 0 ohms.

The thing that has me really confused is the lack of any CEL or codes. The fusible link they replaced is right at the + battery terminal. I never saw it but the tech said it was melted and it makes me wonder if that could have caused an issue with the ECM. Any way to test whether there is something wrong there.

From what I understood reading the FSM today, all the coils should have constant 12v and constant ground, but that the ECM sends a pulse through the third wire to make the spark?
Oilman is offline   Send a private message to Oilman Find more posts by Oilman Add Oilman to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-20-2012, 07:03 PM   Thread Starter #5
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Oilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Official Member #: 5663
Last Online: 05-07-2013 10:46 AM
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 8

Reputation Level: 0
Oilman is an unknown quantity at this point

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

Oh and it's cranking just won't turn over.
Oilman is offline   Send a private message to Oilman Find more posts by Oilman Add Oilman to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-21-2012, 02:09 AM   #6
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
10-50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Official Member #: 6013
Last Online: 08-22-2012 01:22 AM
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 18

Reputation Level: 0
10-50 is on a distinguished road

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

I wonder what the injectors look like
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
10-50 is offline   Send a private message to 10-50 Find more posts by 10-50 Add 10-50 to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 12:35 PM   #7
The Go To Guy
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Mr DoLLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Official Member #: 59
Last Online: 12-09-2014 03:40 PM
Location: bEEn MaNy pLaCeS bUt Im BrOOkLyN's OwN
Posts: 1,410

Reputation Level: 27
Mr DoLLa has a spectacular aura aboutMr DoLLa has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%

My Awards:
Member of the Month (M.O.T.M)  


/ Point Value: 10

Banner of The Month  


/ Point Value: 10

Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

Even with 2 cylinders down car should start but run/idle like crap. Sounds like an ECM problem. If u have the FSM look up on how to diag the ECM.
__________________
sO cHiLLy cHiLL
Mr DoLLa is offline   Send a private message to Mr DoLLa Find more posts by Mr DoLLa Add Mr DoLLa to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 01:50 PM   #8
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
b15son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Official Member #: 5073
Last Online: 10-27-2015 04:34 PM
Posts: 30

Reputation Level: 0
b15son is an unknown quantity at this point

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

I had one do this and it turned out to be the timing chain guide broke and the extra slack on the chain made the timing jump. Since the timing jumped the crank sensor could not detect the correct firing order and the car would not start. Repaced the timing chain and moved the cam gears to corrolate with the crank to top dead center since they were off. After the repair it fired right up. If you have a consult you can monitor the cam sensor timing degree and compare it to the crank sensor to check if timing is out without pulling the front cover. I had a maxima and quest do this with the same 3.5 V6 that the timing jumped after the customer neglected their timing chain repair for so long
Likes: (2)
BurntOrangeAppeal (08-25-2012), Mr DoLLa (08-23-2012)
b15son is offline   Send a private message to b15son Find more posts by b15son Add b15son to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 06:42 PM   #9
Moderator
Burnt Orange
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
BurntOrangeAppeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Official Member #: 2887
Last Online: 12-04-2014 04:56 PM
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 2,816

Reputation Level: 33
BurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

Originally Posted by b15son View Post
I had one do this and it turned out to be the timing chain guide broke and the extra slack on the chain made the timing jump. Since the timing jumped the crank sensor could not detect the correct firing order and the car would not start. Repaced the timing chain and moved the cam gears to corrolate with the crank to top dead center since they were off. After the repair it fired right up. If you have a consult you can monitor the cam sensor timing degree and compare it to the crank sensor to check if timing is out without pulling the front cover. I had a maxima and quest do this with the same 3.5 V6 that the timing jumped after the customer neglected their timing chain repair for so long
I agree with you that there is a possibility of the timing jumping, but I have a feeling this could be electrical due to the fact that they were programming Nvis and there was a main't fuse meltdown. <this most likely was caused by a short, unless there was no melted fuse and the dealer pulled some money out of the OP ( customer)

To OP:
if the dealer couldn't figure a no start condition....one word "RUN" to another place that's competant!

You don't need a consult to monitor cam timing. Any upscale diagnostic scanner will allow you to view the intake side...this will let you compare banks. Not ideal but its fast.

If you want to check timing without a scan tool you don't need to rip the front cover off, you simply pull valve covers off and look at the alignment of the cams. These should be just slightly facing each other INT/EXH at TDC. same way as if you were lining cams for proper time.
__________________
'04 SE 6MT, Elite.
'01 SE Anniversary.
'97 GXE.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
-=My Build Tread=-
BurntOrangeAppeal is offline   Send a private message to BurntOrangeAppeal Find more posts by BurntOrangeAppeal Add BurntOrangeAppeal to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 06:57 PM   #10
Moderator
Burnt Orange
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
BurntOrangeAppeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Official Member #: 2887
Last Online: 12-04-2014 04:56 PM
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 2,816

Reputation Level: 33
BurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

It would be helpful to know which coils are not firing.
What you also have to check is the Condenser. Its located on the.main harness above valve cover on bank1& 2 IIRC. Its a square 2 prong plug.

Turn ignition off.Check resistance with it unplugged between the 2 terminals.
Resistance= above 1 Mohm at 75 degreesF


Once you know for sure which coils are not firing, I would check signal out of ECM for those coils.
__________________
'04 SE 6MT, Elite.
'01 SE Anniversary.
'97 GXE.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
-=My Build Tread=-
BurntOrangeAppeal is offline   Send a private message to BurntOrangeAppeal Find more posts by BurntOrangeAppeal Add BurntOrangeAppeal to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 07:06 PM   #11
The Go To Guy
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Mr DoLLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Official Member #: 59
Last Online: 12-09-2014 03:40 PM
Location: bEEn MaNy pLaCeS bUt Im BrOOkLyN's OwN
Posts: 1,410

Reputation Level: 27
Mr DoLLa has a spectacular aura aboutMr DoLLa has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%

My Awards:
Member of the Month (M.O.T.M)  


/ Point Value: 10

Banner of The Month  


/ Point Value: 10

Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

^^ I agree, sounds like a electrical issue. Since the dealer caused the melt down, there's a high possibility they shorted some parts.
__________________
sO cHiLLy cHiLL
Likes: (1)
BurntOrangeAppeal (08-24-2012)
Mr DoLLa is offline   Send a private message to Mr DoLLa Find more posts by Mr DoLLa Add Mr DoLLa to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-23-2012, 07:06 PM   #12
Moderator
Burnt Orange
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
BurntOrangeAppeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Official Member #: 2887
Last Online: 12-04-2014 04:56 PM
Location: Under the Bridge
Posts: 2,816

Reputation Level: 33
BurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura aboutBurntOrangeAppeal has a spectacular aura about

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

***Caution***
Do not use ECM ground when backprobing ECM. Use vehicle solid ground.

You could check continuity first before probing for ECM outputs.

Coil 1 > ECM pin 62 color BR/R
Coil 3 > ECM pin 61 color L/R
Coil 5 > ECM pin 60 color P/W

Coil 2 > ECM pin 81 color G/R
Coil 4 > ECM pin 80 color GR
Coil 6 > ECM pin 79 color GR/R
__________________
'04 SE 6MT, Elite.
'01 SE Anniversary.
'97 GXE.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
-=My Build Tread=-

Last edited by BurntOrangeAppeal; 08-23-2012 at 07:36 PM.
BurntOrangeAppeal is offline   Send a private message to BurntOrangeAppeal Find more posts by BurntOrangeAppeal Add BurntOrangeAppeal to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Old 08-24-2012, 11:06 AM   Thread Starter #13
Newbie
my6thgen.org Profile Info.
 
Oilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Official Member #: 5663
Last Online: 05-07-2013 10:46 AM
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 8

Reputation Level: 0
Oilman is an unknown quantity at this point

Participation Level: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Default Re: Ignition/Starting Issues

Thanks for all the advice. I'm hoping to have a chance to look at it this afternoon if I get back home early enough.
@b15son the timing chain issue was one of my worries is ce it is a little higher in miles. I don't have consult but I think I am gonna pull off the valve covers when I get the manifold back off to see if it is still lined up.

Again thanks for all the input. This is turning out to be an adventure. @BurntOrangeAppeal I'll k ow for sure which of the back 3 coils if any are getting spark and wasgonna check for continuity from the ECM to the coils after that. Let you know what I find.
Likes: (1)
BurntOrangeAppeal (08-24-2012)
Oilman is offline   Send a private message to Oilman Find more posts by Oilman Add Oilman to Your Friends list Reply With Quote top
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Members And 1 Guests)
 
Thread Tools


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 AM.