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Old 10-28-2010, 05:12 PM   Thread Starter #1
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Default Question About Engine Timing Advance

I just left the dealership, and I got the tech to do my timing for me. He used the Consult, but said it wasn't a Consult III...I'm guessing it was the Consult II? Anyway, he said the timing was at 15 degrees BTC. I asked him to ADD 2 degrees of timing, and I watched him input -2 timing. The Consult then read that I was at 13 degrees BTC. I asked him about it, and he said because the idle timing is read BTC, that to ADD 2 degrees, that you actually take 2 degrees out. This sounds backwards to me...is this right? When I first asked him about advancing the timing, he said he's never done it before. The car seemed to idle a little rougher, but I'm sure it's going to take a few miles for the computer to re-learn everything. It seemed to pickup better getting on the highway, leaving the dealership.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

I believe it's negative because the timing is "advanced."
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:17 PM   Thread Starter #3
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by chemax View Post
I believe it's negative because the timing is "advanced."
See, now you're confusing me...

So what you're saying is he did it correctly, but it's backwards because the reading is BEFORE top dead center?

Or shoud he have added 2 degrees to make the idle reading 17 degrees BTDC.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

hmm... i coulda swore i saw somewhere that when you advance the timing it actually goes to 17* BTC.... but im not positive....

but then again it does sound right that when you advance the timing it goes to -13*
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:20 PM   Thread Starter #5
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by Nismo4Life07 View Post
hmm... i coulda swore i saw somewhere that when you advance the timing it actually goes to 17* BTC.... but im not positive....

but then again it does sound right that when you advance the timing it goes to -13*
I was really confused when he was doing it, but I didn't grill him on it, as I figured he had to know what he was doing. I called my buddy that works for Honda, and he said that YES, you would go to -13 BTDC in order to ADVANCE the timing. I see everybody here talking about 17 degrees though, so that's what is throwing me off.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

^^ yeah i dont blame ya. as i was reading your post i was like "oh no" cuz i keep reading the 17* but now that you have confirmed that he did it correctly then its all good!!!
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:29 PM   Thread Starter #7
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by Nismo4Life07 View Post
^^ yeah i dont blame ya. as i was reading your post i was like "oh no" cuz i keep reading the 17* but now that you have confirmed that he did it correctly then its all good!!!
That's the thing...I don't know that I HAVE confirmed it...that's why I'm asking here. If anybody knows for sure, I'd appreciate the info. Even the thread Eddy had on it said 17, so why is mine 13? I don't know if it's right, or not.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
That's the thing...I don't know that I HAVE confirmed it...that's why I'm asking here. If anybody knows for sure, I'd appreciate the info. Even the thread Eddy had on it said 17, so why is mine 13? I don't know if it's right, or not.
Ask MRDOLLA
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:31 PM   Thread Starter #9
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by cgoss View Post
Ask MRDOLLA
Good idea...sending PM now.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

+2 Timing Advance = 17 Degrees

Stock = 15

-2 Timing = 13 Degrees which Retarded timing to prevent detonation when running nitrousor any forced induction. YOU DO NOT WANT THIS!!!
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:34 PM   Thread Starter #11
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by EddyMaxx View Post
+2 Timing Advance = 17 Degrees

Stock = 15

-2 Timing = 13 Degrees which Retarded timing to prevent detonation when running nitrousor any forced induction. YOU DO NOT WANT THIS!!!
Since the idle timing is BTDC, then doesn't that ADD 2 degrees ATDC?
I'm really confused now.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
I just left the dealership, and I got the tech to do my timing for me. He used the Consult, but said it wasn't a Consult III...I'm guessing it was the Consult II? Anyway, he said the timing was at 15 degrees BTC. I asked him to ADD 2 degrees of timing, and I watched him input -2 timing. The Consult then read that I was at 13 degrees BTC. I asked him about it, and he said because the idle timing is read BTC, that to ADD 2 degrees, that you actually take 2 degrees out. This sounds backwards to me...is this right? When I first asked him about advancing the timing, he said he's never done it before. The car seemed to idle a little rougher, but I'm sure it's going to take a few miles for the computer to re-learn everything. It seemed to pickup better getting on the highway, leaving the dealership.
Consult II didn't work with 07-08. You either would use the Bully Dog or Consult III for 6.5 gens.

Now are for retarding the timing... I'm not sure if you can -2 degree and it will stick.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

yea, you want 17 not 15...
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:37 PM   Thread Starter #14
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by EddyMaxx View Post
Consult II didn't work with 07-08. You either would use the Bully Dog or Consult III for 6.5 gens.

Now are for retarding the timing... I'm not sure if you can -2 degree and it will stick.
He turned the car off/back on when he was done, and checked it again. Said it would stick no matter what. Doesn't really matter if he retarded it instead of advancing it. I'm going to have to take it back and talk him into re-doing it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Everything should be adjust at B.T.D.C for timing advances.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:51 PM   Thread Starter #16
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Eddy,

Do you know what the deal is with the Consult II vs III and why it won't work? If he used the Consult II and said it took, will the car re-learn the timing and reset itself?
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:52 PM   Thread Starter #17
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by EddyMaxx View Post
Everything should be adjust at B.T.D.C for timing advances.
The scary thing is that this was their GTR mechanic. I figured he'd know how to set the timing. When I had my Mustang, you ADDED timing at idle to the BTDC...that's why I asked him when he was taking out 2 degrees, but he assured me he was doing it correctly.

I'm also guessing that if I can't get back out there tomorrow, that I should pull the battery terminals. It is confirmed that this will reset the timing? Is there a certain amount of time that I need to leave the battery disonnected?
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
The scary thing is that this was their GTR mechanic. I figured he'd know how to set the timing. When I had my Mustang, you ADDED timing at idle to the BTDC...that's why I asked him when he was taking out 2 degrees, but he assured me he was doing it correctly.

I'm also guessing that if I can't get back out there tomorrow, that I should pull the battery terminals. It is confirmed that this will reset the timing? Is there a certain amount of time that I need to leave the battery disonnected?
I can't verify the ATDC. All I know is that the nissan service manual only specifies the B.T.D.C not A.T.D.C. B.T.D.C is set at 15 degree per Nissan Service Manual.

If you google anything on Nissan Maxima A.T.D.C, nothing comes up because its never done that way (at least for advanced timing). As all dealers recommend (that I know)... its done at BTDC.

GTR is completly different since its a Forced Induction vehicle. Not sure what his logic is... but it can't be compared to a Maxima.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
I'm also guessing that if I can't get back out there tomorrow, that I should pull the battery terminals. It is confirmed that this will reset the timing? Is there a certain amount of time that I need to leave the battery disonnected?
Yeah some people claim it works and others don't. So its like a weird ratio of how it works.

But yeah that would be a good start if you can't reach the dealer. -2 is used to prevent knocking for other applications. In your case... you might just be creating knocking due to not having a supporting application.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:38 PM   Thread Starter #20
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by EddyMaxx View Post
Yeah some people claim it works and others don't. So its like a weird ratio of how it works.

But yeah that would be a good start if you can't reach the dealer. -2 is used to prevent knocking for other applications. In your case... you might just be creating knocking due to not having a supporting application.
GREAT! Figures...I'm going to try to shoot out there after work tomorrow. Do you have any ideas on why the Consult II will NOT work?
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
GREAT! Figures...I'm going to try to shoot out there after work tomorrow. Do you have any ideas on why the Consult II will NOT work?
We've actually tried the Consult II on 6.5thgens and it would not stick. I believe Dolla tried it as well and nada.

At the 2008 East Coast... Winterfaut could not advance Shaynes timing with Consult II. Easiest way for shayne was to just get the bully dog which works really well.

Consult II only works up to 2006. Then consult 3 goes from 2007+. Its stated the consult manuals as well.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:00 PM   Thread Starter #22
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by EddyMaxx View Post
We've actually tried the Consult II on 6.5thgens and it would not stick. I believe Dolla tried it as well and nada.

At the 2008 East Coast... Winterfaut could not advance Shaynes timing with Consult II. Easiest way for shayne was to just get the bully dog which works really well.

Consult II only works up to 2006. Then consult 3 goes from 2007+. Its stated the consult manuals as well.
Did you know right away that it did not stick, or did you have to check later?
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

Originally Posted by 1hawaii50 View Post
Did you know right away that it did not stick, or did you have to check later?
We set it. Shut off car, restarted and it was still showing stock timing.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

With the Consult II/III you can ONLY change "Idle Timing" not base timing since everything is electronically controlled.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Question About Engine Timing Advance

someone should really just invest in a bullydog and rent it out on here, so everyone can do their own advance and tune lol
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